Author Topic: "The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD  (Read 19696 times)

CreepingDead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
    • http://www.monster-mayhem.com
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2013, 11:18:04 AM »
Rob Tharp told me once that at one point the vinyl masks were made with Goop (also known as Plasti-Goop - the same kinda vinyl that used to come with the old Mattel Thingmaker).

CreepingDead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
    • http://www.monster-mayhem.com
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2013, 11:18:44 AM »
If it's black vinyl and it doesn't glow it was made in the 80s. You can not can not CAN NOT go by the copyright date on the mask.

vader45

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2013, 11:23:28 AM »
Quote from: CreepingDead;300928
If it's black vinyl and it doesn't glow it was made in the 80s. You can not can not CAN NOT go by the copyright date on the mask.
So your saying the black vinyl did not come around till the 80's? I find that hard to believe.

CreepingDead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
    • http://www.monster-mayhem.com
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2013, 11:27:38 AM »
No, I didn't say that at all. Black vinyl came around in the mid 70s for the glow masks. Black vinyl + glow = 70s & 80s. Black vinyl + no glow = 80s

vader45

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2013, 11:30:09 AM »
Well, Im not saying your wrong...But the Same seller was also auctioning off an original white eye socket Vermillion at the same time that sold for $800.

CreepingDead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
    • http://www.monster-mayhem.com
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2013, 11:39:01 AM »
So? What does that have to do with it?

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2013, 01:23:08 PM »

Quote from: CreepingDead;300927
Rob Tharp told me once that at one point the vinyl masks were made with Goop (also known as Plasti-Goop - the same kinda vinyl that used to come with the old Mattel Thingmaker).

Well this surly helps justify what I was saying about the very first skulls being different, I am glad you mentioned what Rob Tharp said, so all skulls were not the conventional vinyl, and whats another name for plasti-goop? "Plastisol" like I stated in the beginning, but, it IS another type of vinyl (a PVC liquid compound) so I need to correct that aspect of my statement. This to me (and as Rob Tharp said) was a different process or mixture of a type of vinyl. Poopsko always brought up the term Plastisol when talking about the first skulls. I think the boy was right.

 
PLASTISOL AND HOW IT IS MADE
A Thingmaker toy consists of a series of die-cast metal molds resembling various bug-like creatures, into which is poured a liquid chemical substance called Plastigoop, which comes in assorted colors. The mold is then heated to about 390 degrees F atop an open-face electric hot plate oven. The Plastigoop is cured by the heat, and when cooled, is removed from the mold, forming semi-solid, rubbery replicas.

Plastisol is a suspension of PVC particles in a plasticizer; it flows as a liquid and can be poured into a heated mold. When heated to around 177 degrees Celsius, the plastic and plasticizer mutually dissolve each other. On cooling the mold below 60 degrees C, a flexible, permanently plasticized product results.[1] Aside from molding, plastisol is commonly used as a textile ink for screen-printing and as a coating, particularly in outdoor applications (roofs, furniture) and dip-coating.

Slush molding

Plastisol is used for slush molding or slush casting. It is a form of spin casting that is more complex than relatively simple resin casting, but less expensive and less sophisticated than the injection moldingused for most plastic products. It involves metal molds that are filled with liquid plastisol. When the open mold cavities are filled, the mold is spun on a heavy duty, high speed centrifuge to force the liquid vinyl into all of the fine detail on the interior of the mold. Then the metal mold is placed into a heating solution, usually an industrial salt heated to about 400 degrees. The liquid vinyl cooks for a few seconds. The mold is then removed from the heating solution and the remaining liquid is poured out. This leaves a thin skin of vinyl on the interior of the metal mold. The mold is then placed back into the heating solution for three to four minutes to cure. After curing, the mold is again removed from the heating solution, cooled with water, and placed on a rack. While the vinyl part is still warm in the mold, it is very flexible and can be removed from the mold with pliers. When the parts cool, they become rigid and are ready for assembly.
The metal molds can produce an unlimited number of castings. Unlike the flexible molds used for resin casting, metal molds are not adversely affected by heat. The metal molds allow grouping of several parts in one mold cavity and several mold cavities in one mold for faster production.


Plasti-Goop
This material is also commercially known as Plastisol.
It is a liquid PVC compound, commonly used to make fishing lures.
I’d advise the Professional #502 type. A whole QUART of this stuff costs a mere $18 !

Here’s where you can get it from: http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Search/plastisol.aspx
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 11:26:31 PM by Crimson Ghost »

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2013, 01:26:40 PM »
This email just came in from Rob Tharp TODAY:

Cool pictures of those vintage skulls, but I'm not going to be much help answering your friend's questions about the differences in the plastic used for the castings.  I was still warming chairs in classrooms back in the sixties.  Even when I started work at DPS, the vinyl masks were being cast by an outside vendor.  They didn't get an on site rotational casting machine until about 1976.
The differing sizes of the masks is often because each metal mold for the vinyl masks has to be made on a separate sculpture.  For the masks that there were a lot of orders for, like Tor Johnson or the Skulls, there were multiple molds.  Each mold was formed around a different sculpture.  Usually made of plaster, so it could be broken back out of the metal mold.  So there are differences in the masks, like size, depending on which mold they were cast from.
Sorry I can't be of more help!


(maybe he forgot about the whole plast-goop thing, but it all makes sense)


R-

(thank you Billy for talking with RoB again)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:26:44 PM by Crimson Ghost »

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2013, 01:29:05 PM »
Quote from: vader45;300925
Thanks for the thread and amazing info here, loved reading it. I agree on that skull photo. The light hitting on it suggest very 3d teeth and not just simply having the middle material cut out. I would guess that Pat Newman used it heavily for reference. Ok I can't press enter to move the curser down and its annoying me.....two posts will have to due.


Yes, me too.. I have heard about the original prop skulls, but never saw one before.. never had any idea how big they even were
or what they were made from.. I edited that photo from the beginning of the thread.

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2013, 01:41:18 PM »
Quote from: vader45;300931
Well, Im not saying your wrong...But the Same seller was also auctioning off an original white eye socket Vermillion at the same time that sold for $800.


Vader, I think this was that white eyed Vermillion you speak of. I figured I would post it in this thread anyway, I'd love to know how many are known in the community.

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2013, 02:06:22 PM »
This one also surfaced about a year ago or so...

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2013, 02:42:46 PM »
Quote from: vader45;300926
Here is my Don Post Skull. I scored this off of Ebay for $400. Yes I won it in an auction after a bid war for $400. The copy right date is 1967 and it is in the Black Vinyl. Its in very well condition. Its not the stark white Skulls seen in the 80's. The tint of white is off and a bit dirty. Its a non glow. Im not sure exactly when it was made so Im hoping to find out. But Im guessing its the early 70's before the new copyright dates of '77 and '76.


The black vinyl glow masks are first seen in the 1978 DPS catalog (it's in my thread)
I never stated that you can go by the copyright dates, in fact I said just the opposite.. what I brought up is there are TONS of black vinyl skulls with a 67 only date in them besides the 76/77's.. which KIND OF makes ya think black vinyl skulls were being made before the copyright change and before the 78 glow skulls... UNLESS a OLD MOLD popped up and they started using it post 1978.. I can totally see black skulls pre glow being made.. first of all, this was the late 60's in California.. I mean, who the heck knows how stiff the timelines were in switching colors, ya cant tell, I myself am going by proof we have (catalog photos, masks, etc) most of us talking about this weren't even born in 67, and some of the guys that were actually there "sometimes" "kind of remember" things that stuck in their memory.. I definitely feel a real super glossy, heavy white skull is 80's all day long, but these off white masks, that look like they are from the Civil War sometimes, could be 1976 when Don Post brought the roto casting machine into the studio and did it all in house with the result being better quality control over the old chocolate skulls.You can't go by the 78 catalog photo, because it's actually the old 77 photo (most likely shot in 76!). make sense? I duuno~?
This threads purpose is to get guys like this talking and debating, because I want to, for once, get the story straight on this skull! This is all in good fun, and I hope there is positive results from all of this.. we are already making progress in my opinion.

R-
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 02:48:29 PM by Crimson Ghost »

vader45

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2013, 06:03:37 PM »
Quote from: Crimson Ghost;300944
The black vinyl glow masks are first seen in the 1978 DPS catalog (it's in my thread)
I never stated that you can go by the copyright dates, in fact I said just the opposite.. what I brought up is there are TONS of black vinyl skulls with a 67 only date in them besides the 76/77's.. which KIND OF makes ya think black vinyl skulls were being made before the copyright change and before the 78 glow skulls... UNLESS a OLD MOLD popped up and they started using it post 1978.. I can totally see black skulls pre glow being made.. first of all, this was the late 60's in California.. I mean, who the heck knows how stiff the timelines were in switching colors, ya cant tell, I myself am going by proof we have (catalog photos, masks, etc) most of us talking about this weren't even born in 67, and some of the guys that were actually there "sometimes" "kind of remember" things that stuck in their memory.. I definitely feel a real super glossy, heavy white skull is 80's all day long, but these off white masks, that look like they are from the Civil War sometimes, could be 1976 when Don Post brought the roto casting machine into the studio and did it all in house with the result being better quality control over the old chocolate skulls.You can't go by the 78 catalog photo, because it's actually the old 77 photo (most likely shot in 76!). make sense? I duuno~?
This threads purpose is to get guys like this talking and debating, because I want to, for once, get the story straight on this skull! This is all in good fun, and I hope there is positive results from all of this.. we are already making progress in my opinion.

R-

Sweet thanks for your take on when this could have been made. My opinion makes me think these were made before the new copy right dates. If they had such wonderful quality control in the 70's and 80's and were able to make stark white non glow skulls in the 80's, why would there be off white ones along side the stark white? That doesn't make sense. It would if quality control was a bit off. Also during the mid 80's they switched to the latex skulls, so that would give limited production to the off white and thus make them rare. That what makes be believe its late 70's and earlier at the least.

vader45

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2013, 06:08:21 PM »
Quote from: Crimson Ghost;300938
Vader, I think this was that white eyed Vermillion you speak of. I figured I would post it in this thread anyway, I'd love to know how many are known in the community.

Sweet, I was thinking about bidding on it, but I thought $400 was steep enough for the other one the seller auctioned off.

Crimson Ghost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
"The unofficial" DON POST SKULL THREAD
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2013, 06:15:57 PM »
Quote from: vader45;300957
Sweet, I was thinking about bidding on it, but I thought $400 was steep enough for the other one the seller auctioned off.

YEP, I think the Verm's brought about 900 at the time.. !

Yes like I said, I dont think you can put a concrete timeline in order, but you can come close in areas.. if DP had the machine in house in 76, then quality control was easier for sure.